Transcript
Narrator:
Welcome to 909 Exec, your source for wit and wisdom in cybersecurity and beyond. On this podcast, your host, veteran, chief security officer and cyber aficionado, Den Jones, TAPS's vast network to bring you guests, stories, opinions, predictions, and analysis you won't get anywhere else. Join us for 909 Exec episode 52 with Shawn Flynn.
Den:
Hey, everybody. Welcome to another episode of 909 Exec. Your host, Den Jones here. I've got an amazing guest, Shawn Flynn. We'll get to him in a minute. Hopefully at the end of this conversation, you'll have taken away some nuggets that you can help your executive journey. I mean, whether you're a VC, a founder, a CEO, or CISO, or whatever level of exec, our goal is to try and give you some tips and tricks so you don't make the same mistakes. Mr. John Stone over the years. Sean Flynn, managing director of SVH Capital and the host of the Silicon Valley Podcast. Shawn, hey, thank you very much for coming on the show. I really appreciate it. I've listened to your podcast many times. It rocks. You've got great guests. You guys talk about some really, really important stuff in the valley. So why don't you introduce yourself to the guests better than I'd done?
Shawn:
I actually really liked that intro. I thought that was spot on. And honestly, it's a pleasure. I'm really excited for this conversation today. I guess I can go a little bit deeper of those areas. So the investment bank, I mean, that's what I do pretty much while I'm awake. And we focus on mergers, acquisition, growth capital and secondary. So all those types of transactions in lower middle market, middle market. And then the podcast, I've been doing that now almost six years, surprisingly, has been that long. We're at episode 280 something. I've gotten to interview people such as ... Well, I mean, let's just say my first guest ever was Melanie Perkins, founder of Canva. So that was my first guest. And then since then, I've gotten to interview founder of Intel Capital, Square, Juniper Networks. I just interviewed the highest ranking person at Microsoft in Silicon Valley, John Villarone.
I've interviewed one unicorn founder every month for the last four months. The list has gone on and on. It's just been incredible because I mean, when else do you get these people's time to ask them anything you want and to pick their brain and get their knowledge firsthand? So I've been incredibly blessed through the podcast and that knowledge has spilled over to the investment banking world because I'll get to ask them questions on the transactions they've done, the capital they've raised, the problems they had and the solutions they came up with. And it's really a fulfilling cycle where I keep just improving from talking to these people and vice versa. I just can't say how lucky I've been throughout this whole time. And that's why also I love being guests on podcasts too, just because of the conversation and how in depth. So I'm honored to be here.
So thank you.
Den:
Oh, no, thank you. And yeah, it's funny, we bumped into each other at a networking event. And I always say to people, networking is absolutely vital in our business. And I don't care whether you're as a junior person going through your ranks of your company all the way up to you're the CEO of the company. The more you network, the more you meet great people like yourself. I joined a British networking group and I think it was via the Osborne event that we met Palo Alto. And I just love getting to meet some cool people in the Valley. And I think we have a collection of people from the most bizarre people to the quirkiest, to the ones that can't talk human, but they can talk tech.
And I think it's great. And so in your VC space, because I think you're the first VC we've had on the show. And I talk to some VCs a lot, but I was at Adobe for 20 years. So my need to speak to VCs and my networking was uniquely different. So I didn't really spend much time in this community. But when you've been working in your space, I'm curious, over the last five years, how have you saw the evolution and the trends shift? Because I knew for a minute everyone talked about zero trust. Now everyone's talking about AI. But from the investment side, what are you guys seeing over the last five years?
Shawn:
So just to take one step back for the listeners here, there is a little difference between investment bankers and venture capitalists and angel investors and that, but we all do play together and we work together. So my role as an investment banker, I'll take the companies that these VCs have invested in. I'll package them when they're looking to get acquired, or maybe some of these companies that are ventured back say, "Hey, we're looking for help raising our next round." And they'll hire an investment banker and we'll come in. So the differences, think of it this way as a venture capitalist, they'll invest other people's money on their behalf, they'll pull it together, they'll have an investment thesis and that investment thesis will dictate how they deploy the capital. Whereas us as investment bankers, we don't have our own capital, we don't have other peoples that it's designated for us to invest.
We go out and we run the transactions, we run the processes. So we'll work with a lot of venture backed companies, but there is a little distinction between a VC and an investment banker. And it's really hilarious because here in Silicon Valley, most people don't know what investment bankers are. And then you go to the East Coast, New York and the bank, wait, what's the venture capitalist? So it's kind of hilarious.
Den:
Yeah, I'm going to say at least one executive has learned something today already.
Shawn:
And then just also talking about investment too, because I know it'll probably come up in this conversation, angel investors and the difference between angels and VCs, angels invest their own money. VCs, once again, they invest capital on behalf of other people based on that investment thesis that they went out and raised the capital around. So what I've seen in the last five years, I mean, it's changed quite a bit. And the conversations right now, I'm really kind of curious about how they'll spill over for next year. I mean, there was times where you'll hear this valuations five years ago were just inflated. And what happened then was it was very challenging for companies to raise their next round because the investors every round want to see a multiple bump. Maybe it's 3X, 5X or whatever it is, but if they invested at a $10 million valuation, they want to see the next round at, say, a $50 million valuation.
They don't want to see it. We invested at 10 million this year or five, three years ago, and then this year again, they're raising at 10 million flat round or even worse at down round. And so we're seeing all these companies right now, especially in the AI space that were AI wrappers that are just, there's graveyards of these companies right now. And you'll see this with all the cycles where there's a lot of attention for one type of sector, one type of business. They'll get a lot of action from angels, from VCs, from investors. There'll be a few winners and they'll go on to do tremendous things, but then there's this graveyard of companies that can't raise the next round that went big or to the moon or nothing because a VC backed company and a founder owned company, they have different trajectories. And I'm not sure how you want to dive into that or not, but I mean, right there, the business model for a VC backed company and how everything is put in for growth, it's very hard if you don't keep bringing this outside capital to keep that path.
I mean, you might be doing great. You might be doing, say, five, 10 million revenue, but maybe you didn't hit the metrics needed for the next round. And so that next round, the investors go, "Yeah, you're doing good, but you're just not there. We're not going to invest." And you don't have the time to pivot all the processes, all the systems in the company to adjust to now, wait, we have to be profitable. And you see these great companies just having to close the doors, liquidate the assets because they were on that VC trajectory path, not the organic growth, stable kind of growth path. And one creates some of the biggest companies in the world like we see and the others less risky, more stable, but it depends who the person is. And this is a conversation that it's interesting now, talking about the last five years, is we're seeing now more founders ... Okay, I don't want to say ... There's a different thought of some founders saying, "Wait, why do we have to go the VC route?" It's so cheap now to build companies with AI and that, that we can sell funded.
We'll get to that maybe what would normally typically be a series A. And instead of raising capital there, just sell the business and with that exit of 100% sweet, go on, do another company, do whatever, or retire. Because say you sell a company, you own 10% of a hundred million dollar company, or you own 100% of a $10 million company, you're walking around with a $10 million exit, your life is completely different in both those paths, how you got there, and 10 million is 10 million, right?
Den:
And if you can do that in a year.
Shawn:
There's people that do it as crazy, but you're seeing more and more of these exits where they got to say 500,000 revenue in 12, 18 months, and they just go, "You know what? I'm perfect from going to zero to one or zero to this spot in the business lifecycle. I don't want to build out a team. I don't want to go out and raise outside capital. This is my comfort zone. I'm flipping this right now. Build another one." And we're seeing more of that. We're also seeing the VCs, before the pandemic, there's this, "I have access to these deals. You have to go to my fund to get access." We're seeing more family offices going, "Wait a second, there's all these networks that we can be a part of. We can just go direct to these companies. Why do we need to invest in you?
" Or, "Hey, why do I need to invest in this fund of funds where they take one in 10, 1% carry and then 10% success that then invest in this VC fund that does two and 20, 2% of management fee, sorry, 1% management fee of the other, 2% management fee and 20% carry." And by the time the returns are there and this group gets their piece and this other group gets their piece, our return, why were we doing all this to begin with? We'd rather just go straight to the company. So we're seeing more conversations of just family offices that want to go straight to the companies. We're seeing more early stage entrepreneurs saying, "You know what? Maybe I just don't need to take that money for a while or maybe not at all. " And then there's also those conversations with all these Slack groups and that of entrepreneurs going, "Hey guys, is the VC route really the route we want to take?
What have your experiences been? Did you have good experience with that route? Did you have bad experiences? Wait, you had a little bit of a misdirection and your investors just laid you out to dry? Huh, I don't really want that path." And there's so much information out there.
Den:
Yeah. And my experience with one of the startups that I knew, they weren't hitting their numbers. And then the board asks questions, it's like, "Do we get rid of the CRO? Do we get rid of the CEO?" And even if that was one of the founders, it's like these kind of questions arise. And all that taught me, Sean, was I'm like, as I started 909 Cyber, I was like, "I'll do this myself.
I'm not going to look for funding." We have a unicorn in the logo actually, so maybe we're a unicorn. I don't know what that really means, but it sounds good. So yeah, it kind of put me off the whole idea of getting external funding because at some point you're giving away a level of control. Now, I know the deals can be struck differently, and that's not necessarily a loss of control situation, but I was just like, "If I can fund this myself, I'm going to do it. And then only if I have to will I go to a bank for capital?"
And really that's more the path I've gone down. And if you give me a wee second, we're going to pause for a brief message and then we'll come back. Hey folks, just want to take a minute to say thanks for listening to the show, watching the show, however you engage with us. If you're liking the conversations, if you think we're adding some value, we'd love you to like, subscribe and share the show with your friends if you know of anyone else that would benefit. Ideally for us, that will help us be able to grow the show, invest more in the quality, get some more exciting guests and keep bringing you some executive goodness. Thanks everybody. Take it easy and enjoy the rest of the discussion.
Hey, Sean, so thanks, man. So as we were talking there, one of the things I want to let people know, so we're recording this in December. So when you say next year, you're meaning 2026, I love the clarification on the difference between the different investors and the banking side of it. So when you're working with founders who are packaging for their next round or they're looking for funding and you're giving them guidance, because I do notice one of the things as well is you are also a business mentor as well, so it's not just that side of it. When you're working with founders, what do you think are common mistakes that people make when they're seeking funding?
Shawn:
Ooh, good question. And we could talk about that for ... That's a whole day right there. Okay. So just thinking of the steps, the biggest one I want to say is they don't know who they should talk to and they waste a lot of time talking to the wrong people. And what I mean by that is angels, as mentioned, they invest their own money, VCs invest money on someone else's behalf, they have an investment thesis. That investment thesis will have the circle, the boundaries of what they can invest in. So for example, one VC, they might say, "Okay, we write checks for early stage companies in the ag tech space and the company has to be based in Western part of America and we're looking for the founders to be second time founders." And they could have this whole list of this huge criteria for their thesis of their fund.
And then at an event, someone could approach them, have a conversation like, "Yeah, I got this FinTech company. We're great. It's awesome." And that person with the FinTech company might go, "Oh, wow, I met this VC. We had a great conversation. We're going to have coffee. Things are going well." And then they never realize that that VC really can't write a check for them because their company doesn't fit that bubble that their fund will allow them to put capital in and they'll waste a ton of time having these conversations. Maybe the VC's like, "Wow, this is an interesting person," or they don't want to be impolite and just say, "No, it's not a fit," or maybe it's never brought up. Who knows? But I see this time and time again where people will get these email list of investors and they'll go, "Look, I got a thousand investors that I'm going to email for my company." I'll go, "Let's go through this list together." Okay, that person's later stage, that's not a fit.
That person doesn't invest in your geographic area or whatever, that person doesn't ... And then you'll whittle down the list after a while and you're like, okay, instead of a thousand, you really have 50. And of these 50, is that really a big enough number because you don't know, maybe they don't even have capital left in their funds. Maybe they've deployed all of it. Maybe they have a competing portfolio company that's too similar to yours. Maybe there could be all these reasons why of those 50, maybe only 10 or 15 are actual real potentials to write a check for this company, but they got this list online, Upwork or whatever, and they're all excited. Or they go to a couple of events. At the events, they have all these conversations, collect business cards, go, "Wow, I have all these meetings lined up." In reality, there's not much substance there.
There's not many, if anyone, that those relationships, those conversations can actually progress to the next level. So first thing I want to say is a lot of founders, entrepreneurs, when they go out trace capital, they don't understand the thesis that matches their company and that they should talk to those investors that have that thesis that matches up.
So I mean, entrepreneurs, they really need to know what the investment thesis is of that ideal investor that matches their company, and then they got to go out and target those investors. So there has to be that synergy, there has to be a match. And it can't be, wow, we're early stage. They invest in early stage. It's really, we're early stage, FinTech, graduated Stanford, right? They write checks for early stage FinTech for Stanford alumni. We're in the Bay Area, they invest in the Bay Area, we're a second time founder and they want to invest sick. There's got to be many things that line up for that fit for those two puzzle pieces to match or the key lock or however you'd want to visualize it. But I'd say the biggest thing, one is entrepreneurs don't seek the investors whose thesis matches their company.
Den:
But how do they find out? I mean, is that going back to networking? I mean, for me, it's like network, network, you got to understand and research, but yeah, how do they find that shit out?
Shawn:
There's a lot of resources out there, but it does take time. And that's one of the, not to be salesy, but that's one of the roles of investment bankers to create these lists to do all that research. But there's people online that can do those that have access to these different databases, whether it's Crunchbase, PitchBook, Grot or wherever the list goes on and on. But you got to spend time and go, okay, let me go to this VC's website. Okay, who are their portfolio companies? I wonder who else invested in these portfolio companies because this VC is at a direct match for us. So we're going to reach out to this VC, we're going to look at their portfolio companies, who else are on their portfolio companies cap tables. We're going to make a list of those investors. Okay, we're going to go to those investors, other portfolio companies and see who's also on those portfolio companies' cap tables.
We're going to reach out to these CEOs and go, "Hey, who'd you talk to? Can you make any warm intros?" I mean, it's really sales. It's a full-time sales job, and that's another mistake. So one, matching the thesis in the company, two, not understanding how time-consuming raising capital is. I think it's a full-time job. And if you're raising capital, you're not investing at that time in your business. And a lot of the times, honestly, especially early companies, it makes more sense to use all those, say, three to 500 hours or however long you take in the fundraise process to just increase sales and marketing and biz dev and build the pipeline partnerships and get those milestones for your company because at the end of the day, you'd be in such a stronger position that the investors will come to you versus you seeking them out and you'll be in a stronger negotiating position by doing it that way
To not realizing how long it takes to actually raise capital. Then, I mean, also another thing is not understanding the capital you need. And what I mean by that is you'll hear a lot of founders go, "I'm going to raise this much for 18 months, or I'm going to raise this much capital for two years." Well, does the investor really want to hear you're going to raise this for 18 months or two years, or do they want to hear, "Hey, you didn't give me this much money, I'm going to five exit and this is how I'm going to go about doing it. " And yes, it'll take me 18 months or two years to get, but whatever it is, I'm going to hit these milestones needed to get your return that makes sense for you to invest in our company. So it goes back, there's a gentleman, Dave Mosby, who was at Koretsu that I remember years and years ago, he said something that stuck with me.
And he's like, "When I look at an investment, I look at it as, what's the probability I'm going to get my money back at a multiple that I'm happy with? " And I'm like, "Oh, probability is low, multiple better be high." Probability very high, multiple can be very low. And as the entrepreneur, you'd be sitting there going, "Here are the milestones I'm going to hit. Based on that, here's that valuation that's probable, and this is the thought process to de- risk it this much. Now, is that risk reward profile, does that suit your appetite, yes or no?" And it's packaging that story when having those conversations. So that's another thing that entrepreneurs, I find they always say, "Okay, this is the time that I'm going to raise for this capital," but they don't say how it's going to increase the valuation of the company. These are the major milestones we'll hit in this time and here's our expected valuation bumps in that time and map it out for the investor really to see that, wow, they've de- risked it to the point where it's almost a sure thing that they hit all the milestones needed to get the next round of investment.
And at that next round, it's going to be a multiple of this round that makes it a good idea for me to put money in this company versus the other 10 that I saw this morning and the other 10 that I'm going to see tomorrow. So that's another
Den:
Thing. And that's the thing is the investment community, they're always looking at companies. I mean, if I think about how do they spend their day, it's looking at companies and nurturing and guiding the companies that are already in their portfolio. Do you think their return on investment ratio is unrealistic given the economy we're in right now?
Shawn:
I don't know, because there's always winners and losers. And this type of investment, you don't really know for five or seven years, depending on the stage that they're investing in, maybe even longer. And so much happens in such ... I mean, gosh, it's kind of funny. So I was having dinner with a buddy the other day and he was talking about, he's worried about leaving Silicon Valley on a 30-day trip because things are moving so fast, he's like, "I'll be obsolete if I take 30 days off." I'm like, "Okay, that's kind of crazy to even think that, but things are moving fast right
Den:
Now." And it does depend on the job and the business you're in and which company you're at as well. I think I could take 30 days off at Cisco and come back and it'll be the same shit still sitting there. You take 30 days off at one of these little startups, you might come back and your job's not even there. You just never know. And so do you think there's a general misconception that founders have about what VCs are looking for or do you think the majority of them have it right?
Shawn:
No, I'd say the majority of entrepreneurs, it's kind of funny. They know how to build their product. They know how to build ... They know more about the technology than that VC or whoever's on the other side of the table, but they kind of put them on this pedestal or at least I've seen that quite a bit where they're nervous, intimidated to ask questions and you're like, "No, no, no, you have to be vetting and screening them as they're vetting and screening you. "That's how it has to be. You have to ask those questions at the end of the meeting. "Hey, what's the investment process? Is it a follow-up meeting? Do you go to your investment committee? How long does it take? Is this a 30-day, 60, 90-day, six month? What's the whole process here? "They have to ask questions, they have to find out information.
Hey, I mean, when we're working with a client, we prep them for the meetings of, okay, we sent them the pitch deck, we got a meeting lined up. Let's email them right now with just the, " Hey, we want to be respectful of your time. What wasn't covered in the pitch deck that you really want us to cover in our meeting just so we can prepare it, just so we can utilize everyone's time? Oh, I really want to find out more about the financial model, the proforma. I really want ... "You could do little things like that and it makes the meeting completely different. And most people just go, " We got a meeting. Yes, we're so excited. Let's just practice on our own. Let's not get any input and then let you go or however. "And it's like, no, no, no. You got to find out who the person is.
You got to tailor it to that person, that group. You got to have these conversations. You got to ask them questions what they want to see, how the story they want to hear, how ... I mean, it's just building a relationship. It is.
And it's kind of crazy how some people, they put people on a pedestal where the real rockstars are the entrepreneurs. Without the entrepreneurs, there's no one else, but the entrepreneurs don't realize that.
Den:
Yeah. But I think the founders are like, " Without this money, then my thing doesn't even exist. "So I think they'll look at it and be intimidated by the ... It's actually not intimidation. I think there's a desperation of, " I really need this money for my business to survive. "But one of the things that we notice, and we speak with startups all the time, I mean probably a couple a week, and we're always looking for technology that we think is going to be useful next gen for our customers and our business as partners as a reseller as well. But I meet so many that I think are solving a problem that no one gives a shit about.
And then you've got all these AI companies that have just spun up that are like, " We're building AI. "It's like, " Well, wait a minute, stop telling me the buzzword. What problem are you solving and do we care? "And I see that there's a disconnect, especially when I talk to CISOs in our network, either our own CISOs or within our broader network, and then you talk to VCs, investors, and then you talk to founders. And I think there's a total disconnect sometimes in these conversations about what's really required right now. And everyone focused on zero trust. Then they focus on AI and I'm like, " Look, get your marketing shit to the side, tell me the problem you solve. And then secondly, tell me how it's going to save money as a CISO because I know every CISO I know they've got budget constraint and they've always been asked to spend less money.
So if you can show me that you're going to save me money, and reducing risk is great sometimes in our game, but a lot of CEOs didn't wake up in the morning and think, I want to spend more money to reduce the thing that might never happen. It's an insurance thing. So yeah, I think there's a little bit of a disconnect sometimes. And there's a lot of people building shit that I don't think is going to last a couple of years because they'll go to market and then they'll realize CISOs don't care. It's not the problem they're solving. Well,
Shawn:
I mean, that just goes to another problem. For them, they like to build stuff, but talk to the end user, the customer while building or before they build. "No, I'll build it, then I'll show everyone. It's like, no, do that market study, do those surveys, have those conversations, get pre-orders if you were to actually build this, have that proof before you put in those months or years of your life into something. And I mean, I've seen some incredible cool things that I'm like, " There's zero market for it, but this was really cool. "Brilliant, like the Pampilot. Yeah, one of those.
Den:
Yeah. I wonder if there's a mentality, certainly internally to companies, there's a mentality of build it and they will come. And then there's another one. And I think Jobs was also like this at Apple where he would be like, "We are going to guide the market and we're going to revolutionize it. " Nobody said that iPhone was required. And I think that's an interesting thing. If nobody is guiding the market and moving it in a direction, then we're not necessarily revolutionizing. We're just evolving. So I always think of it like how disruptive can some companies be because you need them. And then you get other ones that are playing it safe and solving a problem that wasn't solved 10 years ago. So on your podcast, so you've had some inspiring guests. What is one of the biggest gems of wisdom you think you've heard over the 280 plus episodes?
Shawn:
There's too many. There's too many. I mean, just this last week's episode, I got to interview Hussein Paulza, who's the CEO and founder of super.com, the unicorn company. And super.com didn't start off in the direction that they are right now. I mean, they pivoted, but they listened to their audience, they listened to their customer. And one of the things he said in the podcast was, "It doesn't matter how many times you pivot if you're pivoting away from what your customer wants." I was like, "Oh, whoa, that's a wisdom bomb right there." And then another interview I just did, I was on a podcast. It was with the founder of, oh gosh, I'm drawing a blank on the name of the company. It's to help companies wind down. I swear, I'll think of the name in a moment. But his comment was, every time these LLMs, ChatGPT or Gemini release a new update, 500 startups close their doors.
Den:
So here's the thing, and I kind of look at it like ... Yeah, and your show, you guys cover a lot about investment and founders, and you get some of the Valley's top hitters, right? And I love you sharing some of the wisdom. What is something that you see common traits between all these successful founders? I mean, some that you've interviewed and then some that you've worked with from the investment side.
Shawn:
The biggest one, and I've noticed it, and I actually brought it up in a podcast episode of what I've noticed from the most successful people on my show. And I'd say the number one trait is that they're able to build rapport with you instantly. And the craziest thing is I've had some guests on my show, top people. And Jim McKelvey, founder of Square. I remember when I was talking to him, I was thinking to myself, "Huh, I wonder if there's any way I could help Jim." And then after I said that, I was like, "Dude, it's a billionaire. What are you even thinking? How could you help this guy?" But just the way these top people are able to build this rapport, they're always saying your name. "Hey, Sean, great question, this and that. "Whereas other people, some of these people, I'm like, " They don't even know my name.
"It's kind of obvious halfway through they're like, " Yeah, buddy. "I'm like, " They didn't even take the time to know my name. Whereas the top people, they know your name, they build rapport, they act like after a short time, you feel like you're buddy's with the person and you want to help them, you want to be on their team, you want to work with them. It's this crazy almost magic witchcraft skill that the top, top people have where you're talking to them and you think they're talking directly to you versus the world. It's just crazy. So the rapport, people, relations, and that skill, those top people, they all have it. They all have it where you want to be on their team instantly. You want to be part of whatever they're building, whatever they're doing.
Den:
Do you think these are the kind of people that ... I mean, you get technically gifted founders and then you get ... And half of them don't know how to talk to a human. So I'm like, they're the awkward, geeky ones, but they can build some brilliant stuff. And then you get the other people. I always say to people, I'm not the most technical, and I know that because I can talk to humans. So I'm almost like, I've got that blend of EQ and IQ. And I think that in order to jump in front of somebody and build a relationship, build a rapport and also pitch your thing, whatever your thing is, that's the art of communication and it is an art. And I look at it like there's a lot of founders I meet that don't have that piece. So I want to close the show with a couple of things.
One is if you could ask VCs, founders, or anybody in this community to stop doing something, what would that be?
Shawn:
Stop talking so much and listen more.
Den:
Perfect. If you could ask them to start doing something, so a little bit, maybe similar, but yeah, start doing something or do something a bit better. Ask more questions.
Shawn:
Brilliant. On both sides. Both sides. Yeah,
Den:
Both
Shawn:
Sides. Both sides. Ask more questions. That is huge. Coming into a conversation, asking next steps, asking what the possible outcomes go. Just have those conversations where you're asking some questions that you may be a little nervous, but you know if you got the answers, it will move you to the next stage.
Den:
Perfect. Perfect. Thank you, Shawn. Hey, man, it's been great having you on this show. I'd love to have you back again because I think we could talk about this stuff for a long time. But also, I'd just rather catch up and have some drinks
And socialize and hang out and stuff because we certainly move in some fun circles in the valley. And I really, for me, one reminder for everybody is network, network. Then yeah, Shawn, as you said, ask questions. I've learned just a lot talking to you in 30 minutes. So I think there's a lot for people like me to learn and some of those founders out there. So hey, Shawn. Shawn Flynn, thank you very much. SVH Capital and the Silicon Valley Podcast host. So great having you on. I appreciate your time. Thank you, Den. It was a pleasure to be here. Thanks, man.
Narrator:
Thanks for listening to 909 Exec. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and don't miss an episode of your source for wit and wisdom in cybersecurity and beyond.
.svg)
.svg){kind=icon}
